At Tyrions trial, Shae testified against him saying that he and Sansa planned Joffreys murder together. It's personal, and therefore, even more traumatizing. Why are they asking Professors of history for this answer and calling them experts on the world GRRM has created? There is an opinion that if you have one marriage thats not consummated and then you have a subsequent marriage that is consummated, the one that is consummated takes precedence. In fact, their marriage never being consummated is why Littlefinger is able to bring Sansa to Ramsay in the first place. Sansa married Tyrion before the Seven Gods and Ramsay before the Old Gods so the latter could be valid under the other religion. This process is known as annulment and at least in the UK and most states in the US never having sex is a valid reason for annulment. "Consummation was not necessary for a marriage," Karras said. But, what are those facets exactly? Wikipedia says that Sigurd was born in 1133, only 12 years before the latest Sverre should have have been born. Why did Lord Tywin try to execute Tyrion? Why didn't Cersei kill Dany, Tyrion and the rest of the others? That they are married before the Gods, if is was forced, would the church accept it as official. If adults could "marry" off girls too young to make informed consent to God they could marry off girls to mortal men without the informed consent of the girls. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? I'm just hoping that Season 5 allows it. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Now that Sansa and Tyrion are both in Winterfell, don't expect her to change her last name to Lannister. The biggest deviation from her story is obviously her returning to Winterfell and being married off to Ramsay Bolton. dead. logical that she is the only one who could decide who her daughter Of course, the feminist in me hates to think that Sansa's whole future depends upon a marriage vow, but Westeros is not the real world. The only choice she had was between Tyrion and Lancel. And while Tyrion did protect them in some extent against Joffrey mistreatments, she ha It only takes a minute to sign up. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? They were married in Thessalonika in spring, 1299 when Simonis was five and Militun was about nine times as old. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? When Petyr Baelish brought Sansa to her aunt Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? Advertisement Why was greyjoy tortured? It may be several seasons before the two are reunited, but I would love it if they ultimately fell in love for real. Can airtags be tracked from an iMac desktop, with no iPhone? Joffrey made Sansas nuptials to Tyrion even more traumatic for her by threatening to rape her on her wedding night. Sansa quickly escapes Kings Landing with the help of Littlefinger, and Tyrion eventually makes his way to Meereen to sync up with Dany following his victorious escape from prison. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? Joffrey's second fiance, Margaery Tyrell, briefly tries to have Sansa marry her brother so that she can be sent to the safe haven of Highgarden. Once she learns what happened, Sansa no longer trusts anyone in the capital, let alone her Lannister husband who swore to protect her.. Sansa, finally able to reclaim power over the husband who tortured and assaulted her, uncaged his vicious dogs to eat him alive. In most Western countries if you never had sex when married then you don't need a divorce, you just need a judge/official to declare the marriage null and void (never happened). You need to understand the point and strength of a king. RELATED:Game Of Thrones: 10 Weirdest Foods In The Realm. Within the TV adaptation, Shae is one of the only people who seems to genuinely care for Sansa as a person, and they develop a pretty close relationship when Shae acts as Sansa's handmaid. We are positioned as voyeurs This, really, is one of the most unsavory parts of the whole affair. Keep in mind that if Sansa's surroundings say that the marriage was valid; then no one (without proof) can say otherwise. While the Essosi and Westerosi may be different in regards to acceptable marrying age; I can't think of any case where age was an issue in Westeros. Shae was present in Sansas bedroom when Tyrion told Sansa the news that they were to be married. Were Sansa and Arya aware of Littlefingers deceptive plan all along? said their vows, they are married and they stay married. Sansa & Tyrion Are Technically Still Married. So, are they divorced or what? After Petyr took her and gave her in marriage to Ramsay, how can this happen? Thus it seems impossible to prove or disprove Sverre's claim to be the son of King Sigurd Munn. And also, this answer is entirely based on information from the books. ), Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. Furthermore, captured rebels and deposed royalty were often forced to become monks and enter monasteries. by Eden Arielle Gordon Or maybe their marriage will end up playing a part in any negotiations to come. The writers could easily reveal that Tyrion and Sansas marriage is still valid, or they could land on the fact that Sansa is a single woman after Ramsays death. It was common in most past ages of European society for parents or guardians to arrange marriages without consulting the bride or groom. Lannister would have no claim to the North. However, he's also been given one of the Frey girls to marry. Furthermore, as a noble house's daughter, Sansa is well aware of the existence of arranged marriages. Try to understand the difference between truth and the perception of truth, much of the Game of Thrones plot hinges on this. But the way this is shot is one saving grace. 18 hours ago, by Samantha Brodsky How did Arya get her dagger back from Sansa? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Baelish tells Sansa that Tyrion might have done the same to her in time, She is still a child even though she has "Flowered" (Tryion says this Official is what these people tell it is. ROOSE: And you prepared for the consequences. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? "Not until you want me to.". The North is already in open revolt, so the Lannisters (who are controlling Joffrey right now) don't need to worry about what they think, and are using Joffrey's power as the king to cement a claim to Winterfell through marriage (and eventually a half-Lannister, half-Stark child). Saying they never consummated it was not sufficient to get it annulled, Karras said. Love often finds you in the unlikeliest of places and that can include in the midst of a decades-long, zombie-creating global pandemic. People from other cities or who were not present at the time have no way of knowing truth from a lie. The only reason kings don't go full despot on their subjects is doing so tends to incite rebellion (as seen with why Robert Baratheon leads a rebellion in the first place). This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of Game of Thrones when he is setting up the wedding between Sansa and Ramsay. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. She's not going to make the same mistakes that her Peter Dinklage arrives for the "Game of Thrones" eighth and final season premiere. Sansa and Tyrion were married on season 3 of "Game of Thrones;" as the show heads into its final season, it is likely that the two will cross paths. The show presents the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa as an unwilling match on both ends, but in the books that isn't entirely true. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string. He took her out of King's Landing, and kissed her! Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? WebSansa tells him that Tyrion told her that. Actually even in our world, which I assume is what inspired it. With the sole exception of Tyrion, who is unusually progressive for his time. In the sixth episode in season three "The Climb", Sansa Stark is set to marry Loras Tyrell, but is told by Tyrion that he is to marry her. Though an official religious marriage ceremony performed by a priest as was usual for nobility and royalty would usually have a point where the two parties said they consented to the marriage. We do know this is not what she wants at all as she is crying when what seems to be Loras Tyrell's ship sailing away. By acquiescing to the Lannisters' plan for her to marry Tyrion, she can ensure that she stays there and is not sent away. A divorce doesn't exist. Per medieval law, the fact that Sansas first marriage had not been approved for annulment prior to her marriage to Ramsay would make the latter marriage invalid. After Sansa is taken from King's Landing by Petyr Baelish, the storyline that she has in A Song of Ice And Fire is drastically altered for Game of Thrones. By entering your email and clicking Sign Up, you're agreeing to let us send you customized marketing messages about us and our advertising partners. Littlefinger will marry Sansa when the Boltons fall, an event he hastened when he informed Cersie, the Queen mother, of the Bolton-Stark wedding and presented it as Boltons idea. @TLP I've read the book in which it happens and seen every episode of the show to date. This is not the end of Sansa This is only the sixth episode of 10 this season, and therefore, we hold out hope that Sansa will be able to call on the strength that she's built up all of these years to fight back somehow. In 1298, after defeat, Emperor Andronikos II Palaiologos promised to marry a relative to King Stefan Uros II Militun of Serbia (1254?-1321). Since the marriage was not consummated, however, it is possible that it is considered invalid in the eyes of the Seven. What episode does Ramsay marry Sansa? Tyrion never consummated the wedding but Sansa never requested an annulment. 23 hours ago, by Yerin Kim But it was very common for parents to send minor children to monasteries until monastic orders began to prohibit it later in the middle ages. When the Lannisters hear Defying a Royals order is treason against the crown. She is still a child even though she has "Flowered" (Tryion says this when protesting the arrangement to his father), I would imagine being the same as an under-aged person in current times. Although Sansa was no longer tied to Joffrey as his future wife, she remained trapped under the influence of the Lannisters in Kings Landing. Cersei is Queen Mother, a title whose importance wanes with each passing day. And she was begging them to allow her to marry Joffery at that time. Is it possible to rotate a window 90 degrees if it has the same length and width? . Or the crown just doesnt care. Parents or other kinfolk arranged the marriages of aristocrats, and often of commoners as well. Did Petyr Baelish intend for Lysa to see him kiss Sansa Stark? Tyrion is initially reluctant, but considers the offer and decides to do it, in large part because marrying her would make him the Lord of Winterfell. @einpoklum I believe it is mentioned in the books that Sansa told her chambermaid, who spread the word. Great, Click the Allow Button Above @TLP yet she can be engaged to marry Harry? Furthermore, the professor went on to say that she believed Ramsay and Sansa's marriage was invalid and adulterous and that she and the Bolton son were never fully married. outlet that Sansa and Tyrion were no longer married due to a lack of Thus the parents or guardians sometimes had to put a lot of pressure of various types on the engaged person to make sure he or she would give consent at that moment of the wedding. Game of Thrones star discusses dysfunctional dinner scene. The biggest issue is that when Sansa was to marry Joffrey, she had to wait for her parents consent and since her mother is still alive why does she not have to wait Tyrion is repulsive to look at. He doesnt bear any resemblance to handsome Peter Dinkage. %3E He is so ugly, Sansa thought when his face was close 18 hours ago, by Lindsay Kimble ROOSE: I leave that to the brothel keeper. First, a reminder of how those two ended up married in the first place. In that world (and their laws) that means the marriage of Sansa and Tyrion is not legal. all other things that would make it a valid marriage, once they have Because his father forced him once it was decided Geoffrey will marry Margaery and disregarding their opinion they both were forced to play their p Ten years before the events of the series, Theon was taken hostage by Eddard Stark. Research Professor of American History at Harvard University, told the A divorce doesn't exist. I'm fairly certain that Peter Baelish actually talks to one of the Boltons in season 5 and explains that the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion was never consumated, but I may be wrong about that. Tywin offers Tyrion the opportunity to marry Sansa, and if Tyrion decided not to then Sansa would have likely been married to Kevan's son, Lancel Lannister. rev2023.3.3.43278. King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Conquest & Rebellion: An Animated History of the Seven Kingdoms, HBO viewers guide, season 2 guide to houses, House Stark - Sansa Stark entry, http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-7/episode-7/people/100/petyr-littlefinger-baelish, http://www.newsherald.com/zz/entertainment/20160519/game-of-thrones-not-even-kit-harington-knew-about-that-stark-reunion-at-first, This section contains a considerable amount of unverified information, and may be removed after a period of four weeks from the addition of this notice. Sansa has picked up a lot from her friend and confident Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister, for that matter. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. This season, it was her choice to marry Ramsay -- the son of Roose Bolton (Michael McElhatton) who betrayed her mother and brother at the Red Wedding -- in order to avenge her family. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm#_Toc3598339902. It only takes a minute to sign up. That's why I cheered for joy when Sansa made her big entrance at the end of last season with dyed black hair and a steely expression. The king of the land can force through basically anything he wants, re-writing history if he so chooses, and all subjects of the king submit to his will, or you deny his rule, and so are acting in rebellion. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! What is the correct way to screw wall and ceiling drywalls? Even if she didnt object when it was prompted to her, she couldve objected during the ceremony or simply Martin, but it does resemble medieval Europe. It's almost a given for people of her stature. Tyrion never consummated the marriage. None of this happens in the books at all, it actually seems likely that Sansa will never even meet Ramsay, which her fans are obviously grateful for. I would love for Sansa to ended up with someone kind and loyal like Pod. RELATED:Game Of Thrones: 10 Friendships That Should Have Happened (But Never Did). Being that she is captive, being made to get married under duress would not make the marriage official , which would mean Tyrion Lannister would have no claim to the North. That wasn't in the official King's Landing Gazette or anything @einpoklum - and who exactly is going to challenge their word? After the Battle of the Bastards, Jon Snow took Ramsay captive and left Sansa in charge of his execution. However, Ruth Mazo Karras, Lecky Professor of History at You're kidding, right? Sansa was a prisoner of the Lannisters. During her time as their guest, she'd been severely beaten, and publicly shame They are operating under the shenanigan that the Lannisters and the royal family are her guardians since the rest of the family is technically in rebellion. You are assuming your standards of an official marriage apply in a very different setting that doesn't have the same morals - and where most characters don't even follow those different morals either. And yet, were six episodes, Most people know how much an unexpected text message in the middle of the night can ruin a good sleep. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Does a summoned creature play immediately after being summoned by a ready action? The ceremony is followed by a feast with the bride and groom before the bedding takes place, where the marriage is consummated. Sansa Stark & Tyrion Lannisters Marriage on Game of Thrones: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know, Please review our privacy policy here: https://heavy.com/privacy-policy/, Copyright 2023 Heavy, Inc. All rights reserved. Without him, They interacted a few times, and Robin was his typical bratty self with her. Those plans fall apart once Cersei and the rest of the Lannisters discover the plot, and instead they force her to marry Tyrion. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Assuming Catelyn has always been truthful about that; this means that Sansa has grown up knowing that marrying someone and loving them are two separate things. Becoming a nun was considered being married to God. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. That said, Huffington Post asked some experts what they thought and She wasn't willing to marry Ramsay Bolton either, but that happened. BAELISH: Then I have delivered everything I've promised. This poor girl has been tortured by Joffrey Baratheon and then forcibly married to Tyrion Lannister, who was in love with another woman and even less into the match. The emotional abuse is magnified The fallout of sexual abuse cannot be underestimated, but for Ramsay to add an extra layer of perversion by having her watched by a childhood friend, pushes it to another level. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. Sansa has picked up a lot from her friend and confident Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister, for that matter. Yes, we've seen her mature and survive, but no matter how it's presented, this is the rape of someone we've grown to care for. However, he's a bit immature (to put it lightly) and would leave Sansa with a lot of down time while they are engaged. Now if the king were to fall, any other King could choose to undo the marriage (as they could do if any subject was forced to get married and they didn't agree with the decision), but the point is that all decisions are subject to whomever can enforce them. So, by Coontzs logic, Sansa and Tyrion could still be married if those who witnessed the initial union are still committed to it. Thus King Sigurd could have been over 15 when Sverre was born. In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, Sansa enjoys conventional "ladylike" pursuits, with a keen in That's all there is to it. In season 1, King Robert Baratheon pressured Ned Stark into a marriage arrangement between their children, Sansa and Joffrey. Do the Tyrells know (or suspect) where Sansa is? Others do not share Tyrion's forward thinking. Further south, Tyrion, played by Peter Dinklage, was on a boat heading north to Winterfell with Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen. This can only happen if a septon agrees to dissolve the marriage. But even if it was, Sansa and Tyrion wouldn't need to hire whatever passes for a divorce lawyer in Westeros, because their marriage was never valid in the first place. I've wed Sansa Stark to Ramsay BAELISH: The Lannister name doesn't mean what it once did. In ecclesiastical law, the Church would say they are married to each other forever so long as they had pledged themselves and consummated the marriage with sex, Cott told HuffPost. Inspect her, if you must. whose importance wanes with each passing day. Sign up today to receive exclusive secrets from the realm. Enjoy. Even if they separated, they wouldnt be able to marry anybody else.. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Furthermore, Sigurd's illegitimate son King Haakon II the Broad-shouldered (1147-1162) was born as early as 1147, just 2 years after 1145. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm#SigurdHaraldssonMunddied11554. Eddard wasn't thrilled and neither was Catelyn about Sansa marrying into that family nor did he truly want the position of Hand to the King but his King made the request and Eddard didn't want to defy hime. Can archive.org's Wayback Machine ignore some query terms? Defying an order of the crown is treason and punishable by death. How can we prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? As Littlefinger explains to the despicable Ramsay Bolton in season five, the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion was never consummated, which in Westeros means it's null and void. Thus there are examples of high ranking medieval persons marrying when years younger than the canonical minimum ages. We find out that, before their wedding ceremony, the groom first secured permission from the High Septon to annul his marriage to Elia Martell. By signing up, I agree to the Terms and Privacy Policy and to receive emails from POPSUGAR. Because he was ordered to. In feudal societies, even the aristocracy obeys the orders of its elders. (Shoot in the real world, in lots of developin It's murky, but the answer is most likely no. Despite being cousins, the relationship between Robin Arryn and Sansa didn't get a whole lot of development in the show. It is only, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm#_Toc359833990, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverre_of_Norway, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm#SigurdHaraldssonMunddied1155, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_of_France,_Byzantine_Empress, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#Agnesdiedafter1240, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLAND,%20Kings%201066-1603.htm#EdwardIVdied1483, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Were perfect for each other., But just when they have all the makings to become a power couple in Westeros, Tyrion is informed that his family conspired with the Freys and Boltons to savagely murder Sansas brother Robb (Richard Madden) and mother Catelyn (Michelle Fairley) at whats known as the Red Wedding. I know that Tywin brokered the marriage of Tyrion to Sansa in order to prevent her from being wed to a Tyrell, but why did Sansa agree to it? Nancy F. Cott, Jonathan Trumbull Research Professor of American History at Harvard University, whos an expert in marriage history, believes its all quite simple. Getty Andronikos I Komnenos (c. 1118-1185) made himself co-emperor in 1183, and then had Alexios II deposed and murdered. Nancy F. Cott, Jonathan Trumbull Sansa married Tyrion before the Seven Gods and Ramsay before the Old Gods so the latter could be valid under the other religion. Understandably, neither woman took the news well and Tyrion tried to reassure Shae of his love for her in spite of her jealousy. RELATED:Game Of Thrones: 10 Moments Fans Expected To See In The Final Season (That Didn't Happen). In Lysa Arryns opinion, for example, death frees a spouse to marry another, as she tells her niece Sansa in Season 4: Youll be a widow soon. Shae initially refused Varyss bribe to ship her safely out of Kings Landing; however, once Tywin learned about Shae and her iife was in danger, Tyrion told Shae her never loved her and that she was just a whore to him in order to get her to leave. would not make the marriage official , which would mean Tyrion It's her name I need, not her virtue. Unfortunately for Jeyne, Ramsay is as good a husband to her as he was to Sansa in the show. To summarize the comments below this answer: You're ignoring the answers that everyone (both me and the commenters) have provided, which amply answers the question at hand. Theon and Sansa have perhaps suffered the most on the show in terms of physical and psychological pain, and yet have proven to be resilient -- if a bit twisted, but hey, that's Westeros. The two of them could make a great team, however I don't think she'll be marrying him any time soon. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! 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Tyrion escaped before his execution and Petyr murdered Lysa before she could marry Sansa to her son; however, Petyr arranged for Sansa to be married to Ramsay Bolton, solidifying House Boltons hold on Winterfell and control of the North. This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of This is not historical drama, so they could take whatever liberties with medieval canon law that they like, Karras said. The fact that Tywin does it and no one stops him pretty much shows that he's allowed to do it. So with those reasons stated, how can Sansa be forced to marry and have it stand as an official marriage? Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Joffrey and Margaerys wedding was the last time Sansa and Tyrion saw each other. Karras believes that, according to this late 12th-century law, Sansa and Ramsays marriage was an adulterous one. Sverre became a priest in 1175, and the minimum age for becoming a priest was 30, thus making him born by 1145. They may not be husband and wife anymore, but Tyrion is impressed by how powerful Sansa's become, and while the two aren't legally married, it's good to see that they're at least on good terms after everything they've been through. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project. Wouldn't it be nice if Sansa decided to stay married to Tyrion instead of all this? Fire & Blood, Sansa practicing her needlework with Septa, Sansa and her family await the arrival of the king in "Winter Is Coming. Even if they was to marry, Being that she is captive, being made to get married under duress ", Are Sansa & Tyrion Still Married? What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? By joining TV Guide, you agree to our Terms of Use and acknowledge the data practices in our Privacy Policy. What is the point of Thrower's Bandolier? Where the Church was not powerful or present, marriage was controlled by private families, who made up their own rules more or less, Coontz said. I wholeheartedly agree with everything in that post, but I'm fairly certain Sansa was 14 at that time. Doesn't change anything, though. How does Sansa know the hounds have not been fed? Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? The prospect of a Ramsay and Sansa marriage is a Game of Thrones theory popular amongst fans right now. And if Scandinavian churchmen often ignored the canonical lower age limit for becoming a priest, it is probable that medieval churchmen often ignored the lower age limit for marriage. After Tyrion and Shae were married and Shae realized they were not intimate, she unsuccessfully tried to seduce Tyrion once more. In season 1, Bronn found Shae, a prostitute, for Tyrion to be with on the night before his battle in the Riverlands. And unless the parents of a person were the monarchs other persons might have the right or power to override the parental authority with superior feudal or other authority. Yet Sundays episode introduced what is perhaps the boldest departure yet from George R.R. WebLong answer: Sansa's marriage to Ramsay was done in an attempt to replace the character of fake Arya. As others have said before she didn`t have much of a choice. Also this. If you completely forgot Sansa and Tyrion were ever married on Game of Thrones, then don't feel bad, because even the characters seem to have blocked that part of their history out. In the chaos, Sansa was spirited away to the safety of Petyr Baelishs ship; when Tyrion was arrested and Sansa was nowhere to be found, it made him seem even guiltier. rev2023.3.3.43278. What a King or Queen or even lesser royalty orders you to do is law. While w, Welcome to If You Know, You Know, the corner of the internet celebrating the most interesting people and dissecting phenomena within our rich diaspora. At the same time, in the world of ASOIAF they believe that they can check to see if her maidenhood is intact, which it would be. Why does Mister Mxyzptlk need to have a weakness in the comics? Just before Ramsay rapes Sansa, he starts to taunt her by asking why's she still a virgin, was she afraid of dwarf and so on. Sansa and Tyrion last see each other at Joffrey's wedding in season four, an occasion that ends in the young king's death and Sansa fleeing King's Landing.