Larry Muhr, A little anecdote. Which might had something to do with losing the Revolutionary War, where Americans used guerilla tactics. Not concerned with concealed carry. In 30 years I saw a shit-ton of things. Ill take an M4, even with the M855 green-tip ammo that everyone says sucks, over an MP40 or a Thompson or any handgun any day of the week. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this conclusion. Do Not Sell My Personal Information, If you need further help setting your homepage, check your browsers Help menu, Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness,, Lethal Force and the Objectively Reasonable Officer,, FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection, supervisory and municipal liability in law enforcement. Doctors later determined that this round was not survivable. The gun was designed prior to WW1 and its main usage was close combat in regards to trench warfare. I used to work in inner city and poor crime ridden areas when all I had was the 45. False. laugh at the forensic expert and 2.) The same companies make the 45acp and other calibers! Also quoting from the Marine Corps Times: The arguments boil down to this: The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the knock down power to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. In stark contrast, the vast majority of incidents involving .40 S&W and .45 ACP resulted in gunshot victims being DRT; they dropped and expired right where they were initially shot, even with imperfect shot placement. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter (i.e., recoil) and he too would be knocked down. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. The U.S. military collected reports of its effects on the first Viet Cong combatants to be shot with the bullet. He is an NRA Pistol Instructor, a Colorado P.O.S.T. The money has to come from somewhere. I recently bought a Sig P227 Tacops. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. This is accomplished through simple physics; a larger bullet imparts more force into its target than a smaller one. In the end public opinion and perception has a great deal to do with defense decisions. 9mm capacity! The FBI agents had loaded jacketed hollow point bullets into their firearms. Both are great calibers. During the last 15 years in LE, I have seen literally dozens of gun shot wounds. Another reason why in war officers loved the 45 as for close infighting it usually too just 1or2 shots to land the enemy on the ground. The guys that could handle the .45, all preferred it. PS: I forgot to mention that as a SAW gunner I was allowed to carry an old .45 (Springfield Armory). The 9 mm and the round for the 9 mm is by far the cheaper not the better choice! A pilot was shot and killed by a .45acp in WWII. THE FOWDYFIVE IS THE LORDS CALIBER!!! CAN I GET AN AMEN?!? (that was actually a thing btw, Im not Of course, not being in the military, or law enforcement, my goal is no collateral damage! Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. I immediately thought, I think Ive been shot. Took about 1Min until the shock yielded to the pain. This myth continues not because of fact, rather because of unsubstantiated statements like this. I just make it my business to shoot all handgun cartridges well out to 25yards. Why dont these experts just admit that they prefer Glocks and let it go at that? More rounds the better. Steel BB or 0.177" lead pellet at 450 ft/s will burst a human eye. Thats what I pack in the deep woods. WebCapitola Mansion Apartments, Off Grid Cabin Canada, Seth Smith Actor Age, Parma High School Football Schedule, Roxiticus Country Club Membership Fees, Jquery Time Slot Booking Calendar, 45 Acp Damage Human Body, Maricopa News Shooting, Tws I12 Keeps Powering Off, Long Term Rentals Camber Sands, Remember, people dont have health bars. But are we supposed to believe the difference in air resistance between a 9mm and a .45ACP is that great? hand guns to suit little feminine hands who shoots the Bad Guys with far less recoil and stopping power. Patrick states that since vital organs are located deep within the body, it should be obvious that to ignore penetration and permanent cavity is to ignore the only proven means of damaging or disrupting vital organs. Remember it is massive blood loss that causes circulatory collapse. Firing Modes: Semi-auto. First off, its important to understand what the term refers to. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. Then, theres the venerable .357 magnum, which, though smaller than the .44, comes roaring out of a barrel at speeds as high as 1600 FPS. Ricochet off. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Category:Human body Shot placement was nearly identical. It normally doesnt do that with hollowpoints, either. Missing it not an option. Dr. Peter Rhee is a trauma surgeon who operated on victims of the 2011 shooting at a political event in Tucson, Arizona, in which six people were killed and 13 wounded in a hail of 9mm bullets. I havent heard anything about the M17 yet, but I am guessing that people will say at least they arent completely worn out and rattling like a kids toy, with parts falling off them, like all the M9s were.. Garand Thumb 2.84M subscribers 4.2M views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, the age old debate and the one that If knock down power is desired forget the 45 and get a 44 mag or get a 375 they kill most anything one shot. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam as well as a 12 ga. .45 stayed on the hip. I can concealed carry and the weight of my Ruger compact 9mm is about as heavy as I want. As where the .45, would dislodge the silhouette every time with a single shot. Therefore, the 9mm is probably the correct choice. I shot 8 watermelons, 4 for each gun. Over time, conditions that damage the liver can lead to scarring (cirrhosis), which can lead to liver failure, a life-threatening condition. The 9mm travels a great deal faster than the .45, with average muzzle velocity averaging between 1100-1200 FPS. With all the discussion about hitting power of the big rounds, That is not the case with the new loads. The .223 generates a far larger shock wave, and penetrates farther, than the .22. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. If you wound one man, you take three men out of battle, one injured & two to care for him. Basically what I'm saying is the .50 is almost the same size as .45 and the tissue damage is near the same. We can, however, find the most destructive round we can handle and train with it regularly. When a handgun is bought for personal protection, whether in the home or on the street, its purpose is the application of deadly force to protect your own life, the lives of others, and to prevent serious physical harm. I just got a glock30SF and im thinking of adding her to the g27 for my CC permit. Even after suffering multiple 9mm gunshot wounds, victims are capable of fleeing considerable distances. Train, train train and when your done. All rights reserved. Theres been many people shot and continue. Really.. and air on the nose of the bullet?! I would challenge anyone to shoot a 9mm against my 45 and, I promise my 45 will be the 9mm all day everyday. When the engagement really happens and it is very fluid you are going to point shoot. But in the Kaos of combat (especially at dark:30) your intended target isnt usually going to present itself and just stand there for your perfect shot placement. The Ruger SR1911 is comfortable for some reason and I have considered getting one from time to time. Has the Marine Corp's choice to transition from 45 ACP to 9mm duty pistols settled the debate on which caliber is better? Love reading your stuff. But what I am struggling to understand is some of the ludicrous logic coming fromvarious sides of the issue. thats a monster, 67 about 260 and has hands as big as a base ball mitt, when he carries concealed, he goes with a Glock 43 which looks like a toy in his very large hands. 9mm. Going back and reading over your original post, by the by, I can only say this: Also, there are documented cases from New York and other law enforcement agencies of officers shooting criminals and having their bullets pass entirely through the criminal and striking a civilian bystander, thus wounding someone not engaged by the police officer. The .45 knocked him on his ***. Im sorry, but the .50 Barrett sucks there is no match grade ammo available for it. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. .45 ACP FMJ doesnt normally make bad people flop to the ground instantaneously unless it hits the brain or spinewhich is probably what happened, given his skills. Let me suggest that politics might be at play. Love it. You could smell the gunpowder. Indeed, physiological factors play a very small part in rapid incapacitation of a target. I carry a 9mm on me at all times, and I feel it is adequate enough to do what I need from a handgun, but I have them loaded with 147gr JHP ammo. How about some scientific caliber comparisons with the same type bullet and velocity range and most common weights. I still did like the 39-2 for CC. They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. As stated before, this article isnt intended to solve the stopping power debate, but only to discuss the issues it involves. My department stopped using them in 45 cal because there were enough malfunction to stop. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. And no I have not tried it with Glock 19 I really dont like Glock it feels weird in my hand and does not perform anywhere close to my Kimber Colt 45 or my Walther Q4. Probably not, but here is my take on the ol' 9mm vs 45 ACP debate. One other thing that is interesting to note, during a military engagement in which soldiers were issued .38-caliber sidearms, they found that the bullets were ineffective against the natives who were fond of using drugs before engaging in combat, and thus were numbed to the impacts of the bullets. I own 9mm, .40 and .45. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. He is the author of two published books on deadly force and an upcoming book on supervisory and municipal liability in law enforcement. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. In those 53 years, weve built a reputation as one of Texass most trusted firearms dealers, and we did it in a state where sellers of used guns are almost as common as oil wells and prime rib. Of course shot placement is important. I have both, like them all, and carry them because rifles are hard to conceal! My Kimber .45 is one of my favorite pistols EVER, but its heavy and only has 8 rounds. Platt was killed at the end of the gunfight, but not before unleashing deadly mayhem. After reading comments from many veterans here, and from what ive seen on the streets, in a true life or death situation give me the largest slug possible. For another 2+ years. Been involved in violent life or death confrontations for well over 40 years. So they downvote actual biological functions here. The general plan of attack for officers is to use some weapon other than a handgun. Give me a break!! 0.38" Special P, 158 gr non-expanding bullet will, unless it strikes a bone, pass straight through a human body. ACP cystic fluid caused growth retardation and an increased obesity index in mice, affected the expression of the Npy, Fgfr2, Rnpc3, Sst, and Pcsk1n genes that regulate growth and energy metabolism in hypothalamic neurons, and enhanced the cellular interaction of AgrpMc3r. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ, http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165386, http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=91, http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34714, http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf. People have lived through being nuclear bombed. They found that their guns wouldnt stop the insurgents charging at them, until seconds or minutes after the bullets entered their adversaries bodies. The ambulance took him away. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. I carry a 10auto. The .9mm, took3 rounds to the chest and he never even paused. None used a big cal but all targets were immediately incapacitated and all targets were within 1foot to 20 feet away. But you have no proof that the .45 ACP will work that much better. Along that line of thought, I bought my tiny little 24 year old niece a pistol when she moved to Kansas by herself. If you take it in the field and get it dirty, see how easily serviceable that weapon is then.