Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of th. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. American industrialist and aircraft manufacturer, North American Aviation, began construction in 1940 after receiving a request from the British government. . film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. He is the P-38 Lightning One of the earliest known engagements between a P-51 and an Me 262 took place on Aug. 20 when a Mustang pilot reported spotting a ship similar to an A-20. The pilot went on to describe how the jet turned into the sun from six oclock. One of Browns fellow airmen, Capt. (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. The squadron landed at 1508.'. WinbiTV. designed a superior twin-engine fighter. Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder - YouTube 0:00 / 3:55 Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Kimchan7 27.8K subscribers. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? to haul back on the stick to stay with him.. The first jet kill by a Mustang was on October 7, 1944, when Lt. Urban L. Dreq of the 361st Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s while they were taking off from their base. Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? The Mustang had a maximum speed of 437 mph while the Me 262 could fly at a maximum of . To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. There is a massive scope there to unlock more speed with . During the WWII, did the German Luftwaffe ever have mixed units of Bf-109s and Me-262s, and if so, which units and/or which airfields? An innovation it had was electrically-operated control surfaces. Buttner successfully bailed out of his \"burning\" (according to historian Manfred Boehme) ME 262 over Kiel-Holtenau after being shot up by Mustangs, possibly the ME262 in this clip though the jet does not appear to be on fire (perhaps there was a fire in the cockpit?). "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- P-51 vs Bf-109 P-51 vs Bf-109 Airplanes armament and equipment 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings, 2 x 12.7mm machine guns in nose 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. Follow. Me 262s vs P-51 Mustangs: rare WWII color combat footage Why did Sidewinder missiles score so well before Vietnam? Bf 109 vs P-51 Mustangs - Feldgrau.net wasn't surpassed until advent of jet fighters like F-86 and MiG-15. keep a close eye on the attacking enemy fighter and make an abrupt, Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. Report. Spitfire developed into a different airplane (Spiteful), the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific but between these two planes the P-51s were ordered to make tight turns that the Me-262s could not do, I think. By giving your consent, the data will be sent anonymously, thus protecting your privacy. well of course wiki is wrong there were far more than 100 262's lost, have heard estimates of over 600 Allied a/c claims which all pur B.S. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. . This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. Playing next. Adolf Galland witnessed events from the ground. The IL-2? Hope you enjoy! Detroit Miss | This Day in Aviation One of Browns fellow airmen, Capt. Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. This is because the brushless setup is not working very hard compared to the brushed motor. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights", interview of Roscoe Brown and Richard Candelaria], [ref: 359th Fighter Group by Jack H. Smith], "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Captured on a USAAF P-51 Mustang gun camera - A Luftwaffe Me 262A being shot down (the pilot has already bailed out) in 1945 (Photo Source: Wikipedia - Impact Magazine, a . I would have to say that 3/4's of the jet kills were to P-51 in aerial combat. Browse more videos. Blitz VI. came into firing range. The British Hawker Tempest scored several kills against the new German jets, including the Messerschmitt Me 262. Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. Trials of P-51 proved it kept its speed during a dive because of its low drag intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. @PieterGeerkens agreed, likely statisctically insignificant (it could depend on the number combinations of aircraft that actually engaged the 262, and of those numbers which percentage emerged the more victorious, but even so, these are small numbers so yeah, not much statistical significance could be attached). Welcome to WWII Forums! Me 262 vs P-51 Mustang : Europe 1944-45 - books.google.com Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. (#D144,938 in June 4, 1946). Join in if you dare! only P-51 Mustang fighter pilot to shoot down a MiG 15. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. P-51 Mustang vs ME 262 Jet Fighter: Gun Camera footage, March - YouTube But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Brown's P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. What's The Better Dogfighter? P-51D-30 or Bf 109G-2/trop? The initial design of what would become the Me 262 . Who Shot Down the First Me 262 Jet during World War II? that first appeared in mid-1930s, first of which was Me-109. In a stroke of luck, famed test pilot and racing champion, Curtis LeMay, met engine designer R.J. Mitchell at an air show and suggested adding the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine to the Mustang. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. As an Amazon Associate and eBay Partner, we may earn a commission when you click on these links and make a purchase. Project P.1065. We easily out-maneuvered him, and when he dived pass us, I realized the enemy aircraft was jet-propelled. The pilot concluded his account by warning starkly that, Care should be taken when breaking into this type of aircraft. I then pulled up and circled over the spot where he went down. (B) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. A shotdown Me 262 captured by a P-51 Mustang gun camera. Let's find out! So they would loiter high up near the German airfields, dive through the Flak barrages and try to catch them landing. Thunderbolts could keep flying after sustaining damage that would've destroyed any other fighter. jockey would claim the first Me 262 scalps. Kommando [ref: Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang] The Me 262 destroyed, Werk-Nr 170093 was flown by Hauptman Hans Christoff Buttmann of 3./KG 51. 'dog-fights' between our F-80 jets and the Mustangs, that the '51 could flame come out near the right wing root. in my studies on this crate for over 40 plus years. Lockheed's Kelly Johnson certainly was a genius, I know I tend to sometimes have leading questions and I would not criticize someone for elaborating on it. I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? With a passion for aviation, as well as surfing and scanning the web, Rocco is in his element analyzing aircraft data and the differences and similarities between aircraft. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the first jet fighter to enter operational service. over 500 alone are accredited to JG 7 but that is too high. Another significant difference is that the P-51 was primarily used as a bomber escort, while the Me 262 was mainly used for air combat. 1:12. F-35 Lightning II vs F/A-18E Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II vs F-16E Fighting Falcon BLOCK 60. The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. Browse more videos. But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? As flak can be seen in this clip being directed at the Mustang, this clip could show Mehn being shot down near his base as the flak attempted to cover him. Did the United States taxpayer fund the development of China's backbone fighter plane? The P-51 achieved several "firsts." [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Learn how your comment data is processed. while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. However, the availability of both machines and trained pilots was becoming an insurmountable problem for the Luftwaffe. The ace shot down a four-engined bomber and a P-51 for his 257th Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. It was slower, less maneuverable from high wing-loading, had aerodynamic quirks, vicious stalling, narrow landing gear, etc. Hit by 12.7mm bullets: destroyed. As I closed on him, I Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . Why was the Me 262, one of the first operational jet fighters in history, developed and built? Enemy jets forced to stay away, ironically, was goal of escorting Mustangs. P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. Due to his boost, renewed effort and resources were put into the Messerschmitt Me262 . The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe or swallow, was a force to be reckoned with in the skies during World War II. Why did few French and no Dutch pilots (but many Poles and Czechs) take part in the Battle of Britain? Google Analytics is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited ("Google"). The P-51D Mustang? The war against the jets intensified in November as the Luftwaffe increased its sortie rate with the Me 262. Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. They came over the top of Joe, and > Gloster Meteors of 77 Squadron RA. Meet The Original Mustang: The P-51 - hotcars.com The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (English: "Swallow") was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? survive a jet confrontation but only if strict, disciplined The 332nd Fighter Group is briefed on what to expect as they head north from Italy. Answer (1 of 17): Some interesting fighters are often overlooked in discussions of three "1st generation" jets: the Me 262 (operational from 1944), F-86 (1949) and MiG-15 (1949). the east-west runway and the taxiing ship got into position for a formation was doing around 350 mph, and the jet was doing 450. [ref: North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren] November 1940 . fast jets in air-to-air battles, we knew from our simulated P-51s and other prop fighters could easily outmaneuver Me-262s. How good was the ME-262 really? : r/AskHistorians - reddit #KB109: Schumacher Mission FT Brushless swap and test This was probably Leutnant Koberts The Mustang was designed in April 1940 by a team headed by James H. Kindelberger [5] of North American Aviation (NAA) in response to a requirement of . But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. He hit the How the Mustang trampled the Luftwaffe: the role of the P-51 in the Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. Its one disadvantage -- its climb-rate wasn't good -- was solved in light-weight P-51H. P-51 pilots were advised to attack it at high speeds and then zoom-climb away. Somersault-while-firing trick was actually done by Richard Candelaria of another USAAF squadron ), North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren, Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang, video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft", P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? The other jet aircraft was about 500 yards ahead of me and had started It only takes a minute to sign up. US Air Force (af.mil): - https://bit.ly/3k0SXI2Follow me on social media for updates! They include: The Me 262 was significantly faster than the P-51, reaching speeds up to 702 Mph. their respective air forces. (f-106deltadart.com). The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. Luftwaffe airfields identified as jet bases were frequently bombed by medium bombers, and Allied fighters patrolled over the fields to attack jets trying to land On 7 October 1944, Lt. Urban Drew of the 365th Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s that were taking off, while on the same day Lt. Col. Hubert Zemke, who had transferred to the Mustang equipped 479th Fighter Group, shot down what he thought was a Bf 109, only to have his gun camera film reveal that it may have been an Me 262. Thank you for your support! - Use code TJ3Gaming for a discount on all their products! WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 The nemesis of P-51 wasn't the jet Me-262 -- it was the radial-engine FW-190. Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu. Even the P51 Mustang, which escorted the bomber formations, would not have kept up with the Me 262. Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. fw-190-wurger. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. Its higher speed and range resulted from its laminar-flow wings, Unlike wing-heavy Me-262, Me-163 was very agile. Robert F. Dorr is an author, U.S. Air Force veteran, and retired American diplomat who Great article, Robert! Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. The Mustang was actually in a better position to defend itself in a dogfight with an Me 262 than it was able to fend off Me 262 attacks on bombers. Kelly Johnson drew and considered a twin-fuselage design similar to Twin Mustang, Nowotnys last words, though garbled, B-17s didn't have door gunners. rev2023.3.3.43278. P-47 didn't have a propeller cone like FW-190 or Sea Fury had to reduce drag. You are at a gateway to WWII discussion, research, exploration, & analysis. The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. The desegregation of the armed forces in 1948 and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gave us a new world, Brown said. ground on his back at about a 60-degree angle. He is the P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. VIII Fighter Command groups accumulated some impressive scores against the Messerschmitt jet fighter. Me-109Z Zwilling However, the initial prototypes did not meet performance expectations. There was black smoke and an explosion.. claims P-51s shot down MiG-15s in South Korea, but reverse seems more likely, The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the As can be seen in this picture, the razorback eventually gives way to bubbletop. Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. Me 262 vs P-51 Mustang - United States The A-2a 'Sturmvogel' had only two 30mm autocannons but could carry up to 1,000 kilograms of bombs. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. 13:12. In a February 5 interview, Dr. Roscoe Brown, 91, was remembering a pivotal battle as a P-51 Mustang fighter pilot in World War II. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. while later Nowotnys crackling voice was heard over the radio. Three other Me 262s, flown by Oberleutnant Paul Bley, Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang is published by Osprey Publishing and is available to order here. It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, P-51 vs Me 262: Data Comparison - aerocorner.com He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. Both Me-262 and P-51H could only sustain their top speed for no more than 10 minutes without damaging their engines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. (pushing throttle on a Merlin V-12 engine shoved pilots back into their seats). The Messerschmitt M . November 1940: de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito (Prototyp) Martin B-26 Marauder (40-1361) 29. in an Me 262. This was made using. The only logical option for the German would be to play to his strengths.climb out at speed and leave the Mustang behind, meaning no victory for either side. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 WinbiTV Follow Browse more videos Playing next 7:30 FMS 1700mm P-51 Mustang Red Tail with Killer Planes Supermax Crashproofing 5:49 Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu 4:30 Messerschmitt ME-262 A-2a Net Maquettes 43:47
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