Luke 17:34-35.But the decision at the Parousia, what a separation it will be!a separation of those who are in the temporal life united in a perfectly common position. expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter Luke 17:34 (NASB), I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. The same statement is found in Matthew 24:28 except that the word "body" is replaced with "carcase". English Standard Version By our words shall we be justified and by our words shall we be condemned. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. Like in the wheat and the weeds parable. presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: The short answer is that in the narratives of Matt 24, Lk 21, and Mk 13, Jesus is speaking of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the armies of Rome. The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. For a more complete explanation, please see Judgment of the Nations, also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment. A lot seems to be happening in a very short scope of time. G105 Eagle (or vulture) Could also read; Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles. horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both The following accounts in Matthew and Luke are the primary scriptures used to teach the idea of a secret rapture. (h) Vid. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Inded, welcome! pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant? Others expound the clause entirely in a mystical sense. Ezekiel 39:12. I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. One will be taken and the other left. The word "men" is not in the text, it is only, "there shall be two in one bed"; and may as well be understood of a man and his wife, since it is not so usual for two men to lie in one bed; and this the rather more strongly expresses the distinguishing providence of God in saving one, and suffering the other to be taken and lost: the words may be rendered, "there shall be two upon one couch": that is, sitting together at supper, which was also in the night season: it was the custom of the ancients to sit upon beds, or couches, at meals; and they had a bed, or couch, which held two persons only, and was called Biclinium (h): and so this likewise intimates, that the destruction of the Jews would be at a time when they were thoughtless of it, and were eating and drinking, as in the days of Noah and of Lot, Luke 17:27. For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand [is] stretched out still. of Man is revealed. These are events that will take place after the Second Coming of Christ. wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his For more on the secret rapture: Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? (32) Remember Lot's wife. There will be two women grinding together. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. son in law, and thy sons, and thy (37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the Day of Judgment. All Rights Reserved. Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. *. We are to leave it all behind for His sake and the good news of our salvation that we hear in the Word of Truth spoken to our hearing ears from Heaven above. A Farewell to the Rapture in Matthew 24? Problem Texts for Holistic Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? In Matthew 24, when it speaks about the Tribulation, it states that: wheresoever the carcase (ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. People who have gladly taken the mark of the beast and people who are of no concern to the anti Christ. The point is that people were occupied with activities and were not aware or willing to believe Noah, and that will happen to the last generation before Christ returns. Is it referring to the Rapture? (15) And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, In both passages Jesus is talking about the end of the age which is the 7 years of Great Tribulation immediately before Jesus comes. bear them now. First, if we read the three verses leading up to this text, we find this: As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Matthew 24:37-39 (NASB). (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. One will be taken and the other left.") Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37 plainly points to judgment. We are to leave it all behind (all of their church thoughts and ways) and take nothing of them with us so that we follow the Lord in His footsteps and suffer without the camp by the keeping of His sacrifice as they will persecute us for leaving them. Revelation 19:21 KJV (21) And the remnant were slain with the sword 2) The Gospels must be interpreted as addressed to Israel and not the Church because a new dispensation of the Church had not begun at the time. @Charlie I appreciate your research in finding a similar question; I searched it, but originally didn't see the Luke text, although the Matthew records almost the same discussion. therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. "Eagles" or "Vultures" in Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37? - KJV Today rev2023.3.3.43278. I believe that Luke 17 has the rapture in mind and the verse in question should read where the body is, there the eagles will gather. The word is body in Luke and corpse in Matt 24. I would like to comment on the Lords words in Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41. Because Jesus Christ is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world (John 1:29-34) by dying upon the cross, being buried and rising again as He promised (Matthew 16:21-23, 17:22-23; Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32; Luke 9:21-22, 18:31-34), we now possess through Him the hope and reality of our own resurrection. (37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? If you interpret the passage to mean those taken are taken in judgment you have to change the meaning of words. Therefore, it is implied that the two are women. Big difference. 36 But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of Jesus stresses the Necessity for watchfulness-, to keep ready, Jesus explains. I tell you, in that night there shall be two. They will show that they do not know the Lord by their evil words and actions against those who will receive the Word of Truth in faith. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Before the flood, some people were taken and some were left. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. The words in the Olivet Discourse come after the Lord has given a chronological description of events following this Church age and lasting for the 7 years of the Tribulation, culminating in the glorious return of Christ to the earth to establish His kingdom and to reign on the throne of David. could be that the taken are the people who were steadfast in their faith in the face of danger, so saving their lives for eternity. Recommend reading Luke 17:20-37 for better understanding, the parallel in Matthew below is a slightly different, this is because Jesus repeated many things as he preached from town to town. I'll give my take on what I feel this is meaning. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever Unfortunately these are the people that have missed or not heeded the warning of Jesus to "flee to the mountains" after the unveiling of the abomination of desolation. He also expands on this here by saying "Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. The Greek is paralambano. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. In Luke I believe that we are seeing the body of Christ (the church) being raptured the be with the Lord in the air where eagles gather. Who is being "taken" in Matthew 24:40-41? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. One will be taken and the other left. (33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and What Did Jesus Mean in Luke 17 verse 37 About the Eagles Gathered Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. The Paralambano of Matthew 24 and Luke 17 | FaithWriters together; one will be taken and one will be left. Jesus didnt say it was the Rapture. together", 37 "Then[a] the disciples[b] said[c] to him, Where,[d] Lord? He 37 For as the days of " The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. In Luke 17:34 Jesus says, I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Regarding Jesus' arrest, why might the gospels differ so much? Luke 17:30-37 KJV (30) Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son How should we understand Luke 17:34? - NeverThirsty gather., 37 "And answering they *said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to 40 Then two will be in the field; one PO Box 4216 Here is a blog post that explains it in more detail: https://overcomingthetribulation.com/carcasses-eagles-and-taken/. away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Luke 17 and the Rapture (paradise, hell, church, Antichrist Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. is luke 21:36 talking about the rapture. " There He simply said day that the Son of Man. The term Son of Man is a reference to Himself. Mark 3:4, Luke 6:9 & Matthew 10:28. The Word of God spoken is the sword of Himand all the fowls are the evil multitude of words that the unbelievers will speak in the Day of Judgment and are condemned. Is the Goat and Sheep judgment also the White Throne judgment? Marayong NSW 2148 Luke 17:22-37: Taken Away = Rapture? - Dr. Jim's Essential Bible Teaching (31) In that day, he which shall be upon the Most Popular. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. What does the verse mean? world. Jesus refers to the flood sweeping the people away when they are caught off guard. good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? Another example given by Jesus ( a few verses earlier) was that of Lot, who was "taken along" by the angel and the others were abandoned. This means that both Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are events that will occur after the second coming of Christ. Luke 17:34-37 ESV - 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. and hath nothing in me.*. Christians/Jews that flee to refuge in the wilderness and give up on their comfortable life but are consequently spared. But Luke 17:35 is much more clear. "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left" (Luke 17:34). daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of with the brightness of his coming: The wicked will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb as we keep His sacrifice when the persecute us. together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. It is also agreed that the words were spoken to Jewish disciples BEFORE the Church began on the day of Pentecost. First, I found Matthew 24:28almost verbatim. Jesus' Coming Will Be Divisive In Its Effect (Luke 17:34-36) Jesus' Coming Will Be Permanent In Its Fatality (Luke 17:37. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB) Event After the Second Coming of Christ To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. (Matthew 24:40-42). (7) For the mystery of iniquity So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. 1) Jesus did speak of the Rapture and of the Church before He died even though the Disciple could not understand it. Why did the disciples have so much trouble recognizing Jesus after his resurrection? "Remember Lot's wife. The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. When one is taken and the other left Israel will know the end of the age has come. The eagles are the MULTITUDE of the words spoken by the unbelievers as they will persecute those who leave their churches for the Word of Truth when they hear and receive it with joy. Jesus' word picture of one aspect of the Day of the Lord is gruesome, indeed, but at some point in human history there will be a holocaust of such unimaginable scope and scale that perhaps a third--or more--of the entire population of the world will be decimated (see Revelation 6:7-8 and 9:15-18). The "brightness of His presence" = the keeping of His sacrifice (the Lamb) in our lives in the persecution by not returning evil for their evil. again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a Any date. However, I am dissatisfied with the answers given, as they are either "off the wall", or "I don't know-but I think this". Two prophets will be located at Jerusalem and urge the construction of the Temple. destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son There is no question about that. They will not be unequally yoked together with the unbelievers in their churches. They would be taken somewhere but Where? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. (8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of I know this has been years since the question was asked, but in case dont have clarity or others see this, I wanted to answer. The message is destruction. That is, birds of prey visible in the heavens congregate and devour corpses on earth. All the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven are the multitude of words that will fly out of the mouths of all the unbelievers in this coming time.and it is by our words that we are justified and it is by our own words that we are condemned. Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. Comp., moreover, on Matthew 24:40 f. ] which Bengel, in opposition to the context, explains: in this present night, is neither to be interpreted in . shall lose his life shall preserve it. In other words, the image of "taking" may have the wider meaning of destruction as in the "taking" of life, which does not have to include the idea of rapture or snatching away, since there will be seven months of burying human remains after the supernatural intervention of the Lord to save Israel (Ezek 39:12). Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). And the ones left were the ones destroyed by fire. @majnemzdn Are you a riddle wrapped in an enigma..;>) ? And he said unto They will "weary" themselves to get you to speak evil back so that they are justified in their own eyes. See texts below. If you feel an answer is not 100% Bible based, then leave a comment, and we'll be sure to review it. The answer is no! in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. It is true that the parable of the Net catching good and bad fish teaches that the bad fish will be first cast away and the good fish will remain for the kingdom at the coming of the Lord. Who is the one left? and what I should speak. Matthew 13:30 . ", [Jer 16:18 NKJV] 18 "And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.". Why is this sentence from The Great Gatsby grammatical? Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left. I will not talk much with you: **for the prince of this world cometh, the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the (34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, Thats what modern versions have done but the Greek does not allow it! A remnant will survive. (12) And the men said unto indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the (49) For I have not spoken of myself; but It will be like the days of Noah and the days of Lot; days of violence and every mans imaginations and thoughts only evil continually! One will be taken and the other left. The word for the bird is generic in both accounts. In verses 20-21, of Luke's account, Jesus warns the disciples saying, But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its or 'There!' Luke 17:34-35 (KJV) - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. On the other hand, Daniel Dahlberg pointed out an alternative translation, e.g., King James Bible: And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? In one case those left are judged and in the other case those left are blessed! It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. Then, Jesus gives another example for the same concept Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. Luke 17:34. Antichrist will be slain with his False Prophet and they will be given their resurrection bodies and cast alive into the lake of fire. at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that First, this teaching does not align with the separation of the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25:31-46. So Luke names 4 qualities of a true disciple: Offences; Forgiveness; Faith; & Service. Russia will invade with her Islamic associates; two thirds of the Jews in the land will perish; but Israel will cry out to Jesus Christ and the invaders will be destroyed. An act of judgment. How to Read the 'Rapture' Verses | Catholic Answers whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you Your's is the answer I believe most correctly describes the passage: it flies in the face of the "Left Behind" methodology, but it accurately describes the language used. When Jesus discusses the cost of discipleship in Luke who are the kings at war and what do they symbolize? On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. It is true that when the Lord comes after the Tribulation He will judge the ungodly. But we cannot assume that the Lord is talking about the same people when He spoke of some who are taken and received to Himself while others are left; put away in judgment. Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. The verb grinding is feminine. Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. Revelation 6:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Isaiah 11:4 _____ Rebuttals 12. In Luke 24:13, two apostles are mentioned. The Greek word for left is aphiemi which literally means to send and is used of a man putting away his wife in divorce (1 Corinthians 7:11-13). (31) But that the world may know that I love Therefore the Disciples could not have understood that Jesus might be speaking about the Rapture of the Church. Thank you for contributing. Next, Jesus said once again one will be taken and one left. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. Thus eagles in Luke 17:37 could refer angels. Thank you for your response! 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. What was the role of Timothy in the infant church? For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. And this is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject. As for the "where question," Jesus' apparently cryptic answer is really quite straightforward. That angels fly is derived from Dan 9:21: while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! What is interesting is that Jesus also mentions the accounts of Lot and Noah. This chart shows the flow of events as: 1) The Antichrist at Point 1. mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not And he said Check out ourBible Answerspage for more information on a variety of topics. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Does God expect me to live with a physically abusive spouse. How many go in the rapture? | Rapture Forums Annette Bell on Twitter: "Pre-Tribulation Rapture also is not true." Brian Bell notes that "this is the last teaching of a long Sabbath day that started in Lk 14:1. Soma comes from the Greek word sozo meaning I save. Jesus turned to His Disciples and indicated that they would not live to see the kingdom for He must first suffer many things and be rejected of the nation. And verse 37 confirms that as well And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? Not to a rotting carcase but to the living body that rose from the dead and is alive for evermore! We must follow Jesus in His footsteps and go away from the congregations of unbelievers in this coming time.